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Should the wall be build to keep away immigrants?
in Immigration
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- Walt Disney
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so weather it is "tunnel resistant", plane-resistant. Budget-resistant, it is just not a good Imvestment for American Tax Payers. Of course it will be fantastic for construction and real estate industry that Trump represents and financially benefits from.
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I disagree. Even though the video is one-sided to make a point, it says that 23 to 40 of illegals come in by plane. That means the wall could reduce illegal immigration by 60 to 77 percent, which I don't consider insignificant.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/to-fund-border-wall-trump-administration-weighs-cuts-to-coast-guard-airport-security/2017/03/07/ba4a8e5c-036f-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_border-0634pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.47e76a565f03
- Walt Disney
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Trump Administration Gives Details on Border-Wall Plans
so far I didn't see anything that would address the tunnel concern though.
The fate of the supplemental 2017 spending will be the first sign as to whether Congress is prepared to go along with Mr. Trump’s vision for an expensive wall along the border.
https://apple.news/As5PYe1vfT9KzH_1pjvZtzw
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I'll concede that Trump's "Great Wall" idea might not be the best idea...but legitimately, what other proposals do we have to compare it to? SERIOUSLY...can anyone name ONE proposal that existed BEFORE Donald Trump brought it up during the Election race? If you're firing up google right now then the answer is "No". Granted I don't viciously keep up with the news but the only Headlines I recall about the border before Trump came along and made it a hot topic was essentially in layman's terms "Our border sucks, anyone can cross it, we can't stop them". So before everyone goes casting the first stone at Trump for his larger-than-life idea, ask yourself "Who else is honestly trying to fix this problem and what did they actually do to fix it"? Because as far as I'm concerned, Trump is the only one that's proposed something that even remotely looks like a solution.
~Now for specifics~
@YYCDebater , Seeings how it's no mystery that the actual number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. is unknown...how could anyone possibly state that "Most illegal immigrants have fake passports and fly by plane"? This sounds suspiciously like an inflated statement used to reinforce a biased agenda. Even the Federation of American Immigration Reform concedes that their numbers are estimates at best because there is "No known Data" regarding the population of Illegal Immigrants in the U.S.. It's ALL estimates and there can be NO standard of accuracy due to the disparity in numbers.
model67 , I don't fully understand your point, you're saying that because the wall couldn't possibly be 100% effective at deterring Illegal Immigration, that we shouldn't build it? Also, what is this "More productive goal" that you're referencing? I contest that there is no plan, system, program, idea, policy, rule, law or code that has ever or will ever be all-encompassing, totally effective or essentially a "Fix-All Solution". Implying that a preventative measure needs to be 100% unbeatable in order for it to be considered viable would mean that none of our current preventative measures in the U.S. are viable and should all be done away with...from the Police Department all the way to the top of the Government offices. This is absurd. There is no such thing as a singular fix-all solution to a problem as massive as Illegal Immigration.
I would agree that halting the border crossing is the way to "Begin" this solution and when considering how to stop someone from trespassing...a very common and historically successful method has always been the use of physical boundaries (Walls, fences, barricades). I think the wall should be built and we should re-assess our border security afterwards to determine what else needs to be done to halt the inflow of Illegal Immigrants.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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https://www.walmart.com/ip/Lw-Wooden-Ladder-11-Steps/19214114?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=7020&adid=22222222227052715065&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=151653179235&wl4=pla-263635049410&wl5=9016279&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=115793948&wl11=online&wl12=19214114&wl13=&veh=sem
Illegal immigration must be stopped, but trying to stop it with a wall is like trying to stop a river by throwing a small rock into the current.
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History teaches us that a country without secure borders cannot survive.
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What we need to do is remove the incentives for coming here illegally. We need to prosecute business owners who hire illegals. We need to stop giving them benefits at the taxpayers expense. We need to send them back when we find them. If they come back again, sentence them to several years of hard labor, then send them back again.
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Indeed, full agreement there. I believe that people who perpetuate the issue by enticing illegal immigrants to work for them in the United States should be heavily punished. As with any other law, anytime one becomes forgotten or a new one is implemented...we make examples of few in order to get the message across to all that it's not going to be tolerated. I think the fines should be based on a flat percentage of the company's total gross income, 0.5% should work to start out. Once a few companies go bankrupt and a few employers are thrown in jail for breaking the law...other companies will see this as a need to assess their own company and will begin instituting internal reviews to ensure compliance with the law. Once Illegal Immigrants can no longer gain employment in the United States...a good majority of them will discontinue their crossing.
As for the rest of the drug runners, sex traffickers and other criminal seeking to put their criminal trade to use in the United States...I'd recommend beefing up Border Patrol to enable them to do their job more effectively...and build a wall to control access points.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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I would add that anyone caught in the act of human trafficking, or running drugs into the country should be shot on site. No trial needed, since they were caught in the act. If we did this 100 percent in of the time, it would cease to be a problem.
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between 20% and 40% of them are coming by plane and overstaying Visas...that means between 60% and 80% are crossing the border on foot or by land vehicle...therefor build the wall and we'll help to eliminate the majority of the issue.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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I'm curious as to why you were so quick to assume this was an argument for the con
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I guess in this one singular case, despite it being totally inapplicable with any other law ever...intent can justify breaking the law.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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My post was a clarification of the information you posted and doesn't in any way, shape or form contradict what you said and therefor isn't an argument...nor was it meant to be. I'm a little lost as to what exactly you read in my post that suggested that you're making arguments for the con.
In any case, I'm not sure what you're talking about but cheers.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".
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However, I do want to offer something for debate. I feel like when this topic comes up people conflate both sides of the wall argument with assumptions. Pro-wall? You must hate Hispanics. Anti-wall? You just want illegals to run wild. I think it's unfair to both sides.
Personally I am against the wall, only because I think their are more cost effective ways to enforce the land border via technology, and I would be all for a digital wall. At the same time I recognize that their is a sweet spot of the number of illegal immigrants in the country. They are useful because they don't have the right of a citizen, no minimum wage, no labor laws. They are good for some sectors of our economy. Now I actually recognize positives in Trump cracking down on illegal immigrants. I've studied illegal immigrants workers in various developed Asian countries and I think they do it right. They enact policies and do enough raids to keep the illegal immigrants always afraid that the slightest move will get them sent away. This leads the immigrants to stay confined in their own small neighborhood and only go between work and home. The governments will occasionally go into both the neighborhood and the places of work and just deport a bunch of them. They knew they were in these places long before deporting them, and they know and will let these places populate again. The goal of this is to allow the business owners to have their cheap labor while cycling through illegal immigrants so that none get to start very long, generally just a couple years. I think a system like this would be effective here.
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Anyone remember that Maginot line?
A huge wall of fortifications to stop Germany from attacking France?
Want to know how Germany beat France?
They went around it!
Want to know how illegal immigrants will do when the border wall is finished?
They'll go around it
Just because you built a huge fortification wall doesn't mean it'll prevent being bypassed by, oh I don't know, the sea, air, and digging underground!
Blues and Raptors handed two very toxic teams embarrassing losses, 95% of the sports world is rejoicing in the news
Repealing the Second Amendment is the first step to Totalitarianism, and it needs to be prevented to protect our freedom
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/
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anyone remember the Maginot line?
An impenetrable fortification wall meant to halt the German army from attacking France?
Considered the one of the hardest walls to bypass
Want to know how the Germans attacked France?
They went AROUND it!
The German invasion of France. The Maginot line is in black.
How will illegal immigrants deal with Trumps wall?
They'll go around it!
HOW?
By sea, air and digging underneath it! Or, if it's 30 feet high, a 35 foot tall ladder will bypass it!
If Trump realizes how easy it will be bypassed, it will be trillions of dollars wasted
Blues and Raptors handed two very toxic teams embarrassing losses, 95% of the sports world is rejoicing in the news
Repealing the Second Amendment is the first step to Totalitarianism, and it needs to be prevented to protect our freedom
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/
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